The Audacity of Love Across Racial Lines with Christelyn Karazin

Embark on a journey with us as Christelyn Karazin, the brain behind the "Pink Pill," returns to dissect the unique struggles and triumphant stories of Black women charting new territories in relationships. We're pulling back the curtains on the societal and cultural challenges they face, from the stigmas attached to being 'relationship refugees' to the pressures of navigating intercultural dating. Our conversation promises to illuminate the audacious path Black women are carving out in their quest for equanimity in love, alongside the resistance they often encounter within their own communities.

The tides are turning for Generation X Black women, and we're here to celebrate the wave of 'black girl luxury' and the pursuit of the 'soft life'. It's more than just a tagline; it's a burgeoning ethos that Black women are wholeheartedly embracing. Yet, with this shift comes a complex interplay of empowerment and vulnerability. Christelyn shares poignant tales that underscore the necessity for discernment and self-care as Black women approach the crossroads of personal success and relational bliss, and the backlash they may face for defying conventional expectations.

Finally, we revel in the power of allyship and the unwavering spirit of Black women as they break through barriers. We highlight the Pink Pill's role in bolstering self-assurance and creating a sanctuary of support. Plus, we shine a light on Christelyn's latest endeavor, Watered Body Care — a skincare haven for women with deeper and mature skin tones. Her dedication to fostering holistic self-care exemplifies the episode's heart: uplifting confidence, care, and choice in every facet of life for Black women.

Transcript

0:26

so hey welcome back from Greece thank you thank you it was beautiful wonderful that's awesome so so good to see you and thanks for coming back on so for the people that don't already know who you are um and first we need to thank Kadita for introducing us we just met a couple months ago in person in California a few times in a row which is really cool but why don't you why don't you introduce yourself yes oh sorry Chris 1 say it again I I was saying shout out to Petita Jafari of Jafari Legal yes yes so later yeah so so Crystal and introduce yourself to people who might not know you already it's Crystal and Carrison and I am the author of swirling how to date Mate Relate Mixing Race Culture and Creed it's a book um about interverse relationships from a black woman's perspective I'm also the creative creator of The Pink Pill which are lifestyle courses specifically for women of color I see some of my my peach showing up in the in the chat now I see you I see you um I I I have also recently launched a skincare line called Water Body Care because I simply didn't have enough things already going on so um that's me that's great alright so I know we're not gonna talk about the the um body care thing yet but let's talk about something that you referred to in our last conversation and I thought ooh I love that name what is a relationship refugee and how does that relate to our world of domestic abuse and self esteem and everything related to that um so relationship refugees came from the fact that um and and we actually talked about this briefly well actually our the whole theme of our last conversation was about um cultural narcissism and so within the black community black women specifically have a set of relationship challenges that force us to have to kinda look elsewhere kind of kind of see what else is out there we have the lowest marriage rate we have the highest divorce rates um we have a we have the highest out of wedlock rate in in out of all races um there's a lot of of of from from from an abuse side there's a lot of um abuse in in in relationships in terms of uh in imbalance in terms of of the women outnumbering the men by the millions which causes um a certain type of unhealthy leverage for a lot of these relationships because the men have all the powers of men already have power but they have more power because we outnumber them by the millions and so um the term relationship refugees I coined because uh black women out of necessity need to open up their options to other races of men or they are going to be caught up bit be basically held hostage by um not all so let me just you know put it out there by some of of the men in our community because it benefits them um for for us to be held there which is why I get a lot of push back um particularly from black men because I tell black women to open up their dating options so it is kind of a narcissistic thing because it's um if you ask the question how is it related to this community because um one group is saying we have all the power we wanna keep it and how dare you go over there because that takes my power away and there's a lot of shaming there's a lot of of abusive language that is kind of hurled our way by by men who are very upset by by the black women who are taking that leap to kind of go go in a different direction yeah I just saw someone put the term war they said we are war brides haha yes yes uh I mean basically when you think about refugee you're coming into a community right and you may not have a lot of knowledge of this community there are things that you're going to have to learn how to navigate how to get along how to speak the language per se and so part of my courses was to help black women be able to to go into these other spaces with confidence and prepare them because we we are we're sort of force into this situation and here's the thing that's very interesting um we aren't the only ones like I thought black women in America we probably are the worst off for this but I've had women from from various backgrounds um um Indian women Pakistani women who kind of are are saying the same thing um women um of Middle Eastern descent so a lot of us are relationship refugees based on um sort of the oppressive nature of of some of the the the men in our communities and the more ways that force force us to behave in certain ways that don't benefit us yeah and what you just mentioned about um groups of women in different cultures it's it's not just the men but it's almost the entire community yes yes because together as a unit they wanna keep a cohesive unit and so um you have both men and women enforcing this behavior um you have the men enforcing but you have the the women some women guiding um on on behalf of of the men of the group to keep them in line so it is ever yes can you kick we talked a little bit about it I don't remember if it was on my on our last interview here or in on on your community when you interviewed me but um the ways that that girls are raised differently which kind of grooms them for certain unhealthy relationships absolutely so um actually I did a video about this on my YouTube channel there was a woman who um just brief story a woman who wrote into the Atlanta Black Star and said should I finally tell my daughter that I favor my son um there is a saying in a black community that mothers raise their daughters and love their sons and so um in the way in which we are taught as as young black girls and women um to kind of be both the men and the women like we are not gonna be rescued we can't count on in the same way whether through osmosis or not like you're in Connecticut my ex husband is from Connecticut you guys live very close to each other and one thing about mirroring into that family was observing how his mother and his sister were cultivated to um to find partners that were um that that were going to to to be providers and to be responsible and that sort of thing in our community we're told to you and you guys go to school yes you get the education in the career but it's also you get your Mrs degree let them know about that you know we don't what you go to school get your education so you because your education is your husband and so because education and career are your husband you can't count on that in this community it puts a different kind of dynamic where it feels like there's more responsibility on the women and and you can see that pronounced through um the fact that we're raising children by ourselves we're we're doing everything ourselves we're exhausted we're angry um and you see the push back um in recent generations with soft life and black girl luxury because they're they're trying to abandon those things they're trying to abandon those ways of thinking that their mothers imparted on them that it struggle you're supposed to struggle struggle struggle this is what your lot in life is and so um younger generations are saying I don't wanna have any part of that and so you are seeing you are seeing some changes yeah I wanted to note that someone just uh earlier mentioned in the comments that girls are groomed for servitude yes yes and we're supporting and especially my generation so I'm Gen X and we were kind of cultivated to reach back so you go and get yours um we were kind of the first generation beneficiaries of of all of the wins from the civil rights movement and so it was go to school get your education but come back bring it back here and reach down and get and and and build the the man up um there was never any space for for for us to to to be built up ourselves you know we have to do everything um it it doesn't leave room for for us to actually enjoy some comfort in being women yeah so let's get into what you mentioned that I think a lot of people might not understand or have ever heard the term you said the soft life or black girl luxury talk about that yeah so soft life black girl luxury either you oh my goodness hi al um soft life black girl luxury is basically you know I am gonna be educated I am gonna have a career but I'm also gonna leave myself open to be taken care of um I'm not going to um uh procreate or meet with somebody um who is not on my level um I am not going to apologize because um I want to travel I want to have fun I wanna be treated like a lady I wanna be courted um these are all things that in my generation it was like who do you think you are so that's that's the push back because these women are maturing they're saying absolutely not I'm not gonna be you know baby mama I'm not gonna be um chasing after men who don't want me I'm not gonna be begging them if they don't want me um I'm going to to find the best man for the job regardless of of what race and um I'm going to I'm gonna get a little bit of the benefits that I see other women of other groups enjoying so that's hashtag soft life hashtag black girl luxury so how do you think it's affected uh your you know people involved with this cause you gave me a like an awful story remember the last time we talked of someone but she was a lot younger than the man that she got involved with I don't know if you wanna share that story again I think that was when I was talking to you take refresher there's so many so it's been a while yeah what what so so it was something about a black girl who married a white man and she posts all over TikTok remember that oh my God okay um it's not it's okay so here's how the message can go wrong as black women exploring their dating options coming into different communities as relationship refugees it can leave us vulnerable to opportunistic men in other communities so there was one young black woman in particular that followed me but heard something that I didn't say she was interpreting it in a certain way um she was under the impression that I was saying black women just get with white guys just get with any white guy any white guy is gonna be better than any black guy that's not true it's absolutely that was what she got that's how she processed the information and so she married a white man who was a doctor and his previous marriages this was his third marriage the other two marriages two white women lasted I think one was two years and the other one was nine months this is not a good this is not a good pick for a man regardless of race um but he so he had knowledge so this is how you can get in trouble because we're out here publicly trying to reach out to women um trying to do but people are listening you cannot control who listens and so if you see someone who says okay she comes from this community I know that the men over there doing what they're supposed to do so I'm going to offer this um this chance for to save her to give her this luxury lifestyle I'm a doctor I'm gonna you know she's not gonna have to want for anything I had to help her it was so bad this man was so abusive I had to secretly help her escape this man um who turned out to be a horrible person so it really does put keep us vulnerable um because we have these conversations publicly the other people are listening and other people can see what's going on that and then that leaves an opening for men of other communities who don't mean as well to do to do harm to us yeah I mean we we always talk about the uh the power dynamic and as you were talking when we first at the beginning of this interview I was thinking there's like a like a catch 22 for black women in particular yes it it it it it really is I mean it's um it it's one of those things where um you damned if you do you you you're damned if you don't um there's there's dangerous everywhere we do have to be more vigilant we do have to bet more um we can't kind of go through life just living like we have to be constantly vigilant um but that's just that you know that is the nature of uh goodness um there's somebody in your chat um that's very offensive but the the thing is is that so I'm gonna use him as an example if you don't mind me so no I don't mind so this person I'm not gonna give his name because it's an offensive name but he says most bad wenches get killed so bad wench is the name that black men like him call black women who date and marry interracially um these are the men of the community that I said are disillusioned about black women exploring their options they want to scare you into saying what you think you got a bad over here you're gonna have it worse so you might as well stay where you are so it's men like that that I'm talking about and he's and he tends down on it because he says it's true yeah so you're real time Lisa what we deal with yeah I don't like you saw it so there it yep I know and and that's the theme of of people in these types of situations like the domestic abuse community is most people wouldn't believe it unless they could see it or experience it themselves um back to the matter is is that black women and girls are killed every four and a half hours and 98% are done by members of their own community primarily their romantic partners and primarily the romantic partners of black women are black men so sir it's not bad winters being killed by white men it's you it's men like you that are out here killing black girls and women so stop stop lying in front of the white people okay just stop it I'm sorry somebody okay somebody um in an earlier comment said that that uh so black women get these awesome education you know like our generation cause I'm Gen X2 to get this great education and then to come back and basically take care of the entire family by themselves you see that a lot too right absolutely it's expected I mean um you if you if you're supposed to go out and get yours and then come back and pour back into the king and the problem is there's nothing wrong with helping your family helping people you know uh uh uh grow up and encouraging um uh people to in your in your community people you care about cooking it's what I do but it's the expectation and the draining and the until draining you to the point where you have nothing left for yourself and that's where lot of of black women have been where they pour so much into other people they're depleted but yeah I mean that you guys are seeing this because this is what we deal with you wouldn't believe people think I'm full of it but it's right there I know it's like yeah anyway let's let's not give any more attention to it um so let's see another thing that we talked about was the difference between like white women and black women and why women end up in certain toxic relationships you said sometimes it's almost like what are the different values being taught because you said that white women earn or black and black women earn similar amounts so it's not like a socioeconomic thing and yet the relationships that that different communities choose to get into are are very different yes so the Brookings Institute did a study about um black poverty and it was called black poverty um it's all about the men so uh the study showed that black women in terms of career are comparable in terms of earnings with white men but we have a net worth of like $5 not because we're not getting those opportunities but it's who we choose as mates because again it goes back to what I said we are conditioned to reach down and pull up and that's exhausting you know how hard it is to just just think about it if you're standing on a chair and if a person is standing on a chair how easy is it to pull him down easy right how is it how hard is it to pick him back up and put him put him back on the chair yeah difficult yeah so yeah I was gonna say so so is there anything that you think might work that can help people especially black women well I think that well I my whole platform is about helping black women escape that first and foremost you are not put on this earth just to be in service to other people you are not obliged to um a community especially if the community does not cherish and value you um you are a you are a free agent and you are able to roam about the building freely and that um these opportunities are there what I try to tell black women cause a lot of us do this we will literally put ourselves in a cage holding the key walk into the cage close the door lock it from the inside and swallow the key we a lot a lot of times we've been so conditioned that we put these restraints on ourselves that we say we can't go over here we can't do this this person doesn't like us this person won't accept us you know that and we're doing it because it's the the key to all of it is overcoming the fear overcoming the fear of of of what the community has taught you the fear of being an imposter the fear that no one will accept you what I tell black women is you be the distinction if you walk into a room and you're the only black woman don't look at that as a liability look at that as an opportunity and an advantage to be the distinction you don't go in feeling like you have to be a beggar you going owning it and that's what I teach where can people find you or communities like you that really build them up instead of knocking them off the chair well very serious very interesting that you say that so I haven't you know people can follow me here on Instagram um but those who know me I have a channel called The Pink Pill it's on YouTube and um I also have a private group called the Pink Pill Underground where I get really intensive in the coaching where we we have these private conversations because um quite frankly what you see happen in this exchange um we want to try to avoid because we wanna elevate we won't we don't wanna be derailed um from from the conversation so in that we talk about everything not just relationships we talk about businesses finances self Protection travel we just went on a trip to Greece 15 of us like so we're we're all about expanding our our our entire experience not just our dating options we're expanding the whole world so crystalline what about men in general like how can men help support your community oh that's a that's a really good question um I've been very delighted that uh men of other races support see us and support and have respect for the fact that we are so resilient I don't like using the word strong black woman I hate that would actually grates on me but we are resilient we do know how to make lemonade from lemons and we are and and men of other communities are seeing that and are trying to give opportunities a give for example not just men but organizations like Goldman Sachs Golden Sachs um pledge I don't know$10 billion or something for black female businesses to cultivate to to help them cultivate so other communities are seeing us hustling working hard going to school doing all the things trying to be better and so they're encouraging that way but they're also you know I've seen some some actual physical you know Protection not physical but I mean just you know we see you we support you um more of that seen more of that and I would say too is that um don't fight into all of the stereotypes get to know who we are and understand who we are um also there are the set there's a segment of black men who also support what I do so when I give them the shout out as well they do understand what we go through and they and they and they are in support one of which is an um and I would you should probably get you might wanna get him on here is Ralph Richard Banks is is marriage for white people his book came out before mine and he he has a clinical breakdown of what black women go through in terms of relationships in this community and he is a black man married to a black woman with two black sons who is in support so um just continue to um do do do more of that we want more of that yeah so just more open conversations about it conversations more understanding more empathy yeah I'm thinking um I'm not sure if it will let's just put the question out there so say you start to date someone or before you even start are there qualities that you think that are important that women should look for instead of just red flags and what to avoid let's not talk anymore about red flags because sometimes we know that how manipulative people are what are some green flags or things that show that this person might be a good partner or even just someone good to know consistency in the way in which they present um somebody who has integrity somebody who does the doesn't does the hard stuff even though it's hard they do it anyway um doing the unpleasant stuff because it's the right thing to do um I would say being consistent making sure that your actions match your words that's a big thing for me so you can tell me something but if your actions don't match what you say then and there's an inconsistency that's it that's a problem um I mean I could go I could go on and on but green flags are you seek understanding that and and especially when it comes to the relationships that I've had is that the thing that really is a green flag to me is the seeking of understanding to really ask the questions and and and and and try to understand my perspective and from a cultural standpoint that's very meaningful to me but I would say that that your your character is your consistency in your character the way you treat other people when and the way when you think nobody is is looking somebody says no yeah I saw that um yeah I yeah it's mainly it's it's mainly the integrity it's it's an openness and curiosity um it is a consistency you are consistent with your word and your deed those are all green flags that women in general should be looking for in men I just thought of something that's a little strange but I wanna get your opinion on it what do you think when certain men of a different race say I really like black women I wanna date a black that's a good one so they're a lot they're they're always on my channel um and they're often shamed for it um they're they see it as some people accuse them of fetishizing black women because they have a preference but you know is preferring a brunette over a blonde a fetish or a preference I mean there's a there's a thin line here um I think that when when they get attacked for that it's it's an insult to us because people are saying how could you possibly want a black woman well ah you you especially white man you're a white man why would you possibly want to be with somebody like that um so there's a there is some of that there is some of that um unfortunately yeah yeah I mean like you said before with the green flags I think it's so important in general to to get when you think about friends as well as romantic partners someone that's curious about you someone with integrity someone with character it's yes but also somebody who is brave who will do the right thing even when it is hard yeah and there's a lot of opportunities for that especially these days so so I think Chrislyn what we need to do is just keep having these open conversations absolutely and then it does take a lot of courage and and thanks for coming down because I know we met you said you kind of moved away from this and I'm glad you seem to be Emily back to it yes yeah it's so important because who else is gonna talk about it well here I am yeah yeah yeah and I know that um someone I don't know if she's still in the thing she uh she's a financial person she wants to have you on her podcast and I know she's doing a divorce summit that she's arranging for next year so even if it's not necessarily divorce I think the racial issue is important as well it's fascinating be happy to talk about I want you know what the more outside communities understand um what black women not only just what we've gone through but where we're trying to go and if you can be allies please and thank you yeah yeah okay so Crystal and how can people find you but you wanna talk a little more about um the water body care oh okay well water body care as if I don't have enough things going on um I launched my own skincare company called water called Water Body Care and it's a total body system specifically for women of deeper skin tones and mature skin which I happen to be both but um it's also in line is for anybody who has a deeper skin tone or has mature skin um it's the only multi step system specifically for this that you do once a week um if you would love I would love it if you would take a look at its water body care.com it's the first of its kind and um I'm 50 and it's all I use can't believe it wow so many 5 star reviews so I would appreciate it if you guys would take a look at that look at that great so they can find you there and they can find you on your regular Instagram account too yes which it seems like you're you're active yes make a channel my YouTube channel which I've started to sort of revive um and that is the pink though I'm so glad alright well thank you so much Chris Lin when we just will keep having these conversations absolutely and thank you Lisa alright take care bye bye